tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post5055135571975512039..comments2023-04-11T09:46:53.479+00:00Comments on anticant's arena: Americans observedanticanthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-35715053268678864812007-03-31T16:17:00.000+00:002007-03-31T16:17:00.000+00:00A Lot of what happened, of course, is that by the ...A Lot of what happened, of course, is that by the time of Mrs Trollope's long hiatus, here, the majority certainly of transmontane fifth and seventh generation Scotch-Irish 'whites' were in fact undergoing /barbarisation/ -- this concept is best articulated by texas historian T R Fehrenbach, in his /Comanche: The Death of a People/. /In sum/, the barbarised whites were the 'point' of the westward-expansion. And, necessarily they were 'Manifest Detiny's' hit-men (& 'wimmen'!), as the population of the mainly anglo-american & still-atlantean East Coast by the early-19th century no longer had any direct experience of indian warfare; they had become dainty; they were now writing literature; and, thus, they were no longer capable of the contingent & dionysian, hick-ignorant, brutalities of westward expansion.<BR/><BR/>GLOOMILY,<BR/><BR/>Wook, Old Cop & Relentless HistorianBodwyn Wookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04152813177593209096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-27556801704524068362007-02-28T19:49:00.000+00:002007-02-28T19:49:00.000+00:00Aphra - hope you've latched on to Zola's lovely bl...Aphra - hope you've latched on to Zola's lovely blog. He's in Lapland, and very partial to intelligent ladies!anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-64691401573167166232007-02-27T22:03:00.000+00:002007-02-27T22:03:00.000+00:00I must admit that I loved Trollope's waspish bitch...I must admit that I loved Trollope's waspish bitchiness whenver it was that I first read it. She was narrow-minded, snobbish and a cow, but that only made the book all the more wickedly enjoyable.<BR/><BR/>Interesting comments about Canada, there, 1loneranger. A friend of mine has just come back from skiing in Finnland. Made me miss the North all over again.<BR/><BR/>Aphra.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-23188348834839438592007-02-27T14:53:00.000+00:002007-02-27T14:53:00.000+00:00Wonderful writing, as always, Anticant.I love thes...Wonderful writing, as always, Anticant.<BR/>I love these posts .<BR/>Thank you !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-66279449208607693322007-02-27T11:55:00.000+00:002007-02-27T11:55:00.000+00:00One of the fascinations of history is that present...One of the fascinations of history is that present-day readers KNOW WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, which those in the past didn't. To really get inside their minds - so far as that's possible - we have to forget our later knowledge. The twelve million or so Americans of Mrs Trollope's day were mostly descendants of British [and some French and Spanish] settlers, and bore little resemblance to today's 350 million Americans of very varied ancestry. But there are some abiding similarities. such as their uncritical belief in the superiority of their way of life, and their forms of government, above all others.anticanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18135207107619114891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-74418809953162727592007-02-26T20:38:00.000+00:002007-02-26T20:38:00.000+00:00I hope I'll be more clear-headed tomorrow and read...I hope I'll be more clear-headed tomorrow and read this article as it deserves.Josehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02081096450259201426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-16229129724820158402007-02-26T16:07:00.000+00:002007-02-26T16:07:00.000+00:00Brilliant and fascinating post!Brilliant and fascinating post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-22318065566119929602007-02-26T14:22:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:22:00.000+00:00Very much enjoyed this post Antacant. I very much...Very much enjoyed this post Antacant. I very much like de Tocqueville; although I preferred Twain and HL Mencken. Alistair Cooke mustn’t be ignored either, even if he was an establishment figure and a bit of a fuddy-duddy.Aaron Murin-Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519231609156056620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-25870345311381691052007-02-26T13:27:00.000+00:002007-02-26T13:27:00.000+00:00Hi Toby-Really, no offence taken at all by anti's ...Hi Toby-<BR/><BR/>Really, no offence taken at all by anti's latest. On the contrary, I found the perspective refreshing as always. We Americans have a fairly tuff skin in addition to too much stuff, fat, and hubris.<BR/>Our true fault is ignoring history's lessons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-35181499864615427802007-02-26T08:57:00.000+00:002007-02-26T08:57:00.000+00:001loneranger the English have always specialise in ...1loneranger the English have always specialise in a waspish comic criticism so don't take too much offence from the comments. <BR/><BR/>Great post, Anticant. The problem for the English in retrospect is we seem to have acquired many of the negative aspects of American culture, the disappearance of manners, obesity, arrogance (although we always had that), consumerism and cultural ignorance (best demonstrated by our general failure to learn foreign languages). <BR/><BR/>The blog -<BR/>http://www.eclecticeccentrics.com has been launched and you are free to comment, just pitch a few ideas and Frank will give you posting rights. Contact him via the e-mail on the blog. It turned out that while we were having our conversation the other day about whether it was a good idea or not, Frank had gone and designed it anyway (he is an irrepressible force when he's channelled in the right way). Sorry if it seems undemocratic, but let's not view it as an uber-site but instead another string for our many bows. It seemed a shame to waste his efforts and it might be a good way of pulling in prospective writers to our expanding circle of blogs.toby lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15687485829494173937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-44116792373390371042007-02-26T03:39:00.000+00:002007-02-26T03:39:00.000+00:00Or, maybe we are just a bunch of hill-billies. ;)Or, maybe we are just a bunch of hill-billies. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4580535460030164028.post-9561911808335907832007-02-25T20:29:00.000+00:002007-02-25T20:29:00.000+00:00An interesting post anticant. Well, being the res...An interesting post anticant. Well, being the resident semi-uncouth American here, I guess I'll go ahead and put my foot in my mouth now. ;) <BR/><BR/>Since moving from the States to Canada one of my personal missions has been to identify the elusive Canadian identity? After five years of dwelling on this topic I've concluded that it is not multi-culturalism, as government officials would have us and the rest of the world believe, but more likely the common connection to the environment. The collective Canadian identity can be best described by the communal envitabilty of winter’s coming. Canadian residents are quite possessive of their beautiful unspoiled landmass that comprises most of the North American Continent. Endless ocean coasts, vast prairies, countless great lakes and Rocky Mountains are where people go to seek refuge from the cities. The artic tundra known as the "Great White North" holds a mythical status among Canadians and non-Canadians alike. The fascination with this land’s harsh natural beauty is the true Canadian identity. Almost every Canadian is an avid outdoorsmen and many families keep cottages in rural northern locals to escape to from their city dwellings down south near Uncle Sam's border.<BR/><BR/>That being said, upon initial observation a visitor or newcomer to Canada might not make this assesment. The most commonly expressed identity trait proclaimed by Canadians would have to be how "unlike Americans" Canadians are. Canucks love to toss around this mantra to help describe themselves and their country. "We're a lot like the States, but we're nicer and more polite." I'm sure everyone reading here that has met a Canadian on a train or airplane knows what I'm talking about.<BR/><BR/>As annoying as this description might be to an American, this is certainly an understandable reaction for a relatively new country in search of an identity living next to the most powerful nation on the planet and attempting to become recognized among the world's older and more established industrial countries. <BR/>The comic, Robin Williams, said of the Maple Leaf country...." Canadians are like the residents of a loft apartment living above a house that's throwing the greatest party on earth, and they’re not invited." It may seem that way to that comic and other Americans. But after living here for five years now, I'd have to say that sentiment rings hollow.<BR/><BR/>I have a theory that it is this same quest for an identity that Trollope mistakenly described as uncouth mannerisms of early Americans. In an attempt to find themselves in the aftermath of Revolution Americans proclaimed to abandon most everything right and English, most notably the Victorian Era’s rigid behavioral etiquette practiced by certain visiting elitists from England. <BR/>Perhaps in this attempt to find a unique national identity the fledgling American citizenry living in the “wilds of the west” lost some of the inherent “English civility” of their former mother country.<BR/>After all, aren’t many of those 18th and 19th century Americans just wayward Englishmen.<BR/><BR/>We all know of course that every nation embodies many sorts of behavioral traits, and it would be naïve to presume and cliché to say that all Americans are uncouth ruffians.<BR/>This is why it is so dismaying to watch a certain American President and his administration embody these rough edged stereotypes for the sake of seeming rebellious and individualistic when all it does is make him look like a giant American ass.<BR/><BR/>As for Trollope’s critique of slavery being contradictory to American liberty, I find it amusing that she considered herself and her motherland above reproach given that several British cities and enterprises were built around the Atlantic slave trade and continued to capitalize on that slave trade and the cheap labor it produced well into the later half of the 19th century. It wasn’t until 1838 that the British Empire formally abolished slavery. And Lloyd’s of London, the National Gallery of London and the Bank of England were all heavily funded by the sugar cane production coming out of the West Indies into the 19th century.<BR/><BR/>My apologies if this lengthy comment has come off at all defensive. That is not my intent. I would have to agree with Twain’s observation that most of what “Lady English” said is in fact true while at the same time being slightly hypocritical. My only excuse can be….. I’m a bit of rough edged Virginian myself I guess.<BR/><BR/>It is a shame that America’s gruff liberal exterior forced Trollope to flee for her life and high-tale it back to her homeland and revert to the stifling conservatism of Tory theology. <BR/>We could have capitalized on her insight. But, it’s no big secret,…. American’s hated loyalists with a passion. Most of them were forced to flee to Canada eh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com