Tuesday, 7 August 2007

Heavenly Twins?

"I believe that God wants me to be president." - GEORGE W. BUSH
"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany." - ADOLF HITLER, Berlin, March, 1936
God is not on the side of any nation, yet we know He is on the side of justice. Our finest moments [as a nation] have come when we faithfully served the cause of justice for our own citizens, and for the people of other lands. - GEORGE W. BUSH
If we pursue this way, if we are decent, industrious, and honest, if we so loyally and truly fulfil our duty, then it is my conviction that in the future as in the past the Lord God will always help us. - ADOLF HITLER, at the Harvest Thanksgiving Festival on the Buckeburg held on 3 Oct. 1937
"Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." - GEORGE W. BUSH
"Never in these long years have we offered any other prayer but this: Lord, grant to our people peace at home, and grant and preserve to them peace from the foreign foe!" - ADOLF HITLER, Nuremberg, Sept. 13, 1936.


Richard W. Symonds said...

Is 'God' simply another name for 'The Shadow' of people like Bush and Hitler ?


Certainly 'God' is being used as a convenient 'cover' for insane lunatics - yet again.

anticant said...

Spot-on, Richard. You're starting to get the hang of this 'God' business at last!

Richard W. Symonds said...

Ah, AC, what I say in no way negates the existence of God...don't jump to a conclusion which may not be there !

anticant said...

Richard, you can't prove that God [however you define such an entity] exists, any more than I can disprove it. We differ because you think you 'know' God exists, while I find the whole notion illogical and improbable.

It doesn't matter whether or not God exists; it's the use to which the concept is put by those humans who believe [or pretend to] in a Deity that is the only relevant issue.

By their fruits you shall know them.

Richard W. Symonds said...

I am reminded of Carl Jung's comments to John Freeman in 1959, when asked if he believed in God :

"Believe ? I don't need to believe - I know.

"The only real danger which exists is Man himself. He is the great danger...and we are pitifully unaware of it. We know nothing of Man, far too little."

anticant said...

Jung was a profound thinker in many ways, but he did sometimes drift off into incoherent mysticism.

Man's biggest folly is to cling to the belief in 'supernatural' beings who are frequently invoked as sanctioning diabolical wickedness.

We don't need to believe in a God or gods in order to be good.

Emmett said...

JUNG'S Main problem -- as a human matter, it's perfectly understandable, we ARE stuck in these horridly isolated 'individual' physical bodies with this lonesome sociability! -- is that he said too much sometimes about what can't be jabbered or writ down!

BUT, With or without supportive phantasy, 'the good' IS doomed on this crude molecular scale to an endless gavotte with EQUALLY endurant Evil.

WHEREAS 'Tis the saving phantasy & naught else, that avails to the devoted worker from time-to-time the hard-won images of something other, and beyond.

[Most of these last God-damn fools are hard at it all by themselves {wanking? -- CC Wook, Vice-desk} and you ain't going to see 'em louding off like that Bush dumb sonofabitch on Tee Vee -- only at "Dr" Gale's, sure as Hell! -- Judson Andersen]

(Always? the yeoman-hick's manurey unbelieving voice, eh, Mr Andersen? -- Editor, /Mysticism To-Day/, a /Cosmopolis/ publication, Dekay House, Shoreditch)

Jose said...

I am inclined to think that for people like Hitler and Bush, God is their ego, nothing else.

Cowards are prone to wield something supernatural to get their backs guarded, availing themselves of people's naivete.

anticant said...

There is no convincing evidence that 'God' has ever been anything else than a projection of the egos of those who believe in him, her or it.

That is precisely why belief in the 'supernatural', and the supposed sanction it provides for human actions, is so dangerous.

Emmett said...

ACTUALLY, The 'supernatural' as conception, since it exists on the phsical level certainly in our (heated!) brains, /is/ objectively as natural as anything else.

THAT Clarified, it is no more or less dangerous than 'rational', 'scientific',
'therapeutic', state-liberallist & post-positivist public hygiene so-called conceptions of 'reality', alas! /Some/ of the Nazis were real quacking ducks for this archetypes-stuff & and 'spirituality', and they spent out loads of money on tom-fool outings to Thibet & Thule, the search for Wotan's Oak Tree and so forth. Numbers of them et only rolled oats and fruit juice, too....

THIS Was the religious instinct gone amok!

OTHERS, Hitler notably -- precisely, the /agnostic/ Nazis, 'God' bless their rotten little sweet-reasonable souls! -- detested this irrational nonsense, thought Himmler a God-damned fool and kept their beady late-modernist eye on the main chance, gassing people & pursuing the chimaera of 'improved public health'. Hitler was a notorious protagomist of the vegetarian-flummery -- the hygienic instinct run amok!

THIS Latter-day stuff altogether was the rational and, precisely, /humanist/ mind of man gone overboard!

/REASON/ And 'common sense, in other words (plus large doses of /evolutionary/ science flang in!) are perfectly satisfaction projection-hooks when the 'liberated' crowds' juices are flowing. Certainly so in those eras when 'the people' in a collective fugue have simply come round to the stage of refusing the previous religious version of 'the facts':

OF The /objective/ final No that /always/ lies concealed in life. Naturally, these antinomian generations /think/ that they are 'repudiating superstition' whilst in process, actually, of having lots of wild footer & sex.

THE Real problem may be to find a way of defending life (as it is!) /without/ theoretical concepts of any any sort of 'judgement', of having to off anyone, 'cure' any diseases, 'make things better' or any of the other bonnet-bees?

Jose said...

It is so easy to defend life, Emmett, that I cannot understand how people go to the lengths of invoking God or the earthly law for that matter. Humans tend to complicate things when respecting anybody's life and behaviour, if kind ad polite, must be an every day aim for all of us.

anticant said...

One problem is, Jose and Emmett, that what Jung called the "Dark Shadow" is in the ascendant in our present-day world. There is no need to personify it as 'the Devil' - it is all too human.

I strongly believe that many people come into the world angry because of painful birth experiences. These lead them to seek revenge, without realising why.

But you are absolutely right, Jose, that human kindness and decency are also potentially present in everyone. How do we mobilise and spread these benign qualities?

Emmett said...

THE Part to be played by private thought & meditation, 'creative visualisation' if you will, is not to be gainsaid. The Sufis in Morocco contend that all work 'now' is for the future & beyond; and, that as awful as things be now, still they are subject to /continuous/ inward amelioration by, precisely, visionaries. If anyone goes further & makes claims, however, and sings /songs/ about it all like Mr Toad, then vanity is at work -- more of that 'ascendant shadow' stuff! But, it is of interest to note the Sufi assertion that, because of an actual net gain in 'wisdom' (by which I, for one assume a net gain in /simultaneous/ cortical-firings at critical wave-lengths), THINGS NEVER AGAIN WILL BAD AS THEY WERE. The only thing that makes any of the foregoing palatable to one such as myself is, of course, because this set of suasions /is/ directed at my personality-type; and, they are for those persons of a religious temperament who nonetheless /do/ see through the swindle of 'religions'.

Emmett said...

THIS One'll PO a BUNCH of the boneheads:


LOVE & Mouth-raps, grandpa

Yankee Doodle said...

"It doesn't matter whether or not God exists"

Yes, it does. Very much.

Now, can you tell me why?

anticant said...

Emmett - I would be a much happier person if I could believe that things can only get better. [That's what the lefties were warbling after Blair was elected in 1997, the silly sods!] But I agree with the rest of your thoughts on the value of meditation etc. Creative spiritual development has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of a 'God'.

YD, I've already covered your point in earlier replies on this thread. The objective existence of supernatural gods can never be conclusively proved or disproved. It is the effect that belief in them has on the opinions and actions of their professed followers that matters in the real world.

I am profoundly convinced that the human race would be far better off without beliefs in supernatural beings. Some people would still behave abominably to others, but they would no longer have the excuse that they did it because 'God' or 'Jesus' or 'Allah' or 'Jehovah' told them to.

In particular, the Middle Eastern races would be far better off, and get along more harmoniously, if they didn't believe in the dogmas of Islam or Judaism, and the USA would be a much better place both for its own inhabitants and for the rest of the world without all the overblown religiosity.

Emmett said...

YD, I expect the following 'link' may make matters more clear


GOD Or no God, it is a matter of 'God-awful' people in all places & cases,